One of the highlights of Blogs with Balls in Vegas was the ESPN after party. For me, it was a chance to eat and drink while watching the Phillies beat the Dodgers in Game One of the NLCS, but for many it was a chance to watch the first cuts of Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL?

The director of that documentary, part of the 30 For 30 series ESPN is running out in honor of their 30th birthday, is Mike Tollin - filmmaker, director, producer, and noted Phillies fan. He’s always welcome on our show.

You probably noticed a lot of publicity for the documentary surrounding the name of Donald Trump. In short, it’s Trump who killed the USFL (it aired on ESPN last night, so I don’t think I’m ruining anything for you). Trump felt that the spring schedule would never get the USFL to the level where it could legitimately compete with the NFL, and the only way to do that was to move the season to the fall. It didn’t work, and the documentary does a wonderful job of explaining the history of the league, the success it had early on and how Trump, in essence, drove it into the ground with his delusions of grandeur.

Trump obviously disagreed with what most of the 32 other people Tollin interviewed for the film -- including Steve Young, Jim Kelly and Burt Reynolds -- had to say. And Trump disagreed with Tollin, whose production company did the highlight shows for the USFL back when the league was playing. Trump called the film a ‘third rate documentary’ and Tollin ‘a loser.’ All of this, of course, just gave the film more publicity. So we discuss Trump’s tactics and question his motives in being so vociferously against it.

We also talk about Trump as a brand. Why do people still gravitate to him? Why does he still have any of his shows or filled casinos or anything when he comes off as such an unlikeable and unsavory character? And that has to be what it is, right? A character?

Tollin and I talk a lot about the process of making the film. Trump handed him the title in his interview, but what was the focus of the film without Trump’s comments? Was there even a movie there without Trump’s involvement? And what was it like for Tollin, who has made a career on the other side of the camera, doing the interviews and the narration for this film? Was he comfortable being the focus of the movie as much as the USFL itself?

We get a little into the nuts and bolts of the USFL. Trump, in the film, said, “the spring is a wasteland,” and while that sentiment eventually led to the demise of the league, wasn’t he right? Would football really work in the spring on a long-term basis? The TV ratings were dropping every year and while the attendance was around 25,000 league-wide, much of that was bolstered by only a few markets while others, including LA, floundered. Tollin steadfastly believes that the USFL could have worked in the spring, and that a secondary football league -- most likely one that serves as a farm system to the NFL -- could flourish in the NFL offseason.

So why has no secondary football league, be it associated with the NFL or not, worked? The WLAF failed, NFL Europe, as it was rebranded, failed. USFL obviously failed. In week two, the UFL is averaging 154k viewers, which was cable’s 5,344th most watched show (tied). How can that not fail?

Speaking of ratings, Tollin knows a thing or two about that, as he has been the executive producer of several prime time shows, including Smallville and One Tree Hill. We talk about the CW’s business model and niche programming and how it compares to the bigger companies, namely NBC. Can NBC really try to be all things to all people and survive? Tollin talks about the difference between broadcasting and narrowcasting and how the network programming relates to cable. We also discuss how reality programming fits in and while he claims to not watch any reality programming, he sure does know a lot about it. Kids.

Last, as Tollin is a local guy, we talk Phils. And yes, we are aware of how obnoxious Phillies fans are becoming when compared to other fans, including Red Sox fans. Does the self-awareness make us less obnoxious? Tollin thinks it does not.

Thanks for listening, and if you haven’t, check out Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL -- if for nothing else to see what Trump’s hair looked like in the ‘80s.